I wonder how wisdom ties in with honor. Would be a cool line of research. My guess is an inverse correlation between wisdom in a culture and the degree to which its honor based.
Shōgun was an interesting exploration of honour as a cultural concept.
I am not sure that wisdom and honour should have an inverse relationship. Perhaps Wisdom manifests in how honour is protected? There are ways to manoeuvre so as to keep one’s honour (maybe dignity is a better word); wisdom allows you to see the various pathways to achieve this?
To be clear ... I'm not an expert or even a novice for that matter. Just a fan of Beck. I hope this is a faithful interpretation.
With that proviso...
My understanding is that he found exaggerated beliefs and expectations = root cause of even the most significant psychological issues (e.g., schizophrania). At the core of his model is the insight that expectations about gain, loss, threat, or offense become exaggerated, leading to disproportionate emotional and behavioral responses.
Beck used phrases like "unrealistic beliefs" or "exaggerated beliefs" or "exaggerated expectations" or somesuch. I think they are basically synonymous in his work over theyears.
Anyway, you can sort of map this concept to all of the classic cognitive distortions:
All-or-Nothing Thinking: An exaggerated expectation that only total success or absolute virtue is acceptable. “If I’m not perfect, I’m a failure.”
Overgeneralization: The belief that one negative event signals an ongoing pattern—“I failed this test, so I’ll fail everything.” An exaggerated extrapolation of significance.
Catastrophizing: Perhaps the clearest fit—exaggerating the likelihood and/or severity of a negative outcome. “If I make a mistake, I’ll lose my job and never recover.”
Should Statements: Unrealistic standards for self or others—“I should always be productive,” or “They should always treat me fairly.” These reflect inflated moral or performance expectations.
Labeling: Global, exaggerated conclusions based on single events—“I’m a loser because I messed up.”
Mind Reading / Fortune Telling: Inflated certainty about others’ thoughts or future events—“They think I’m stupid,” or “This will definitely go badly.”
Bottom line = addressing the exaggerated expectations about gain, loss, threat, or offense = healthier.
I once saw a full-blown fight break out at a party because a guy looked at someone else’s girlfriend the wrong way. Chaos. Punches. Shouting. I assume all in the name of someones “honour.”
In the middle of it, one of the boys shouted, “Take Shirley home.” I was driven straight to my door, and the guy didn’t leave until I was safely inside.
Same value – honour. Used for violence. Used for protection.
Maybe the challenge is to unhook honour from ego and dominance… and reattach it to integrity, courage ... ??
Love it! I enjoyed reading. Especially laughed at, you might have a family which is the reason we have therapists.
I have just spent 2 1/2 hours working through a dysfunctional family fracture and quite frankly this is the answer. Honor.
Perfect timing!
Thanks Katrina! Wishing you the best with that fracture. Never enough on this topic
Thanks Todd. There really isn’t enough on this topic. It can be quite consuming to sift through without a good enough structure.
How do you do it? You tap into such important veins of hidden truths so readily.
The idea of Honour is one of those facets of making meaning that can too easily go awry.
There is so much to explore around honour as a response to violations of privilege, dignity, and respect.
I so want to have a conversation about this topic around a campfire with some drinks!!
Thanks! It’s so hard not to write 10k words on these topics. Bust out any thoughts that extends this.
This got me thinking about how tightly we cling to scripts about what’s “owed” to us.
Made me go back to Beck’s Prisoners of Hate
“Anger is often kindled by the perception that another person has violated an important rule or standard especially one that is unrealistic or rigid.”
That’s the heart of it.
When honor becomes a rulebook full of shoulds … “people should respect me,” “I can’t let that slide,” “backing down means weakness”
…you’re always on edge.
These unrealistic beliefs aren’t just emotionally exhausting, they distort reality and fuel retaliation … sometimes an endless cycle of retaliation
Grateful for how you keep pressing into these areas!
I wonder how wisdom ties in with honor. Would be a cool line of research. My guess is an inverse correlation between wisdom in a culture and the degree to which its honor based.
Shōgun was an interesting exploration of honour as a cultural concept.
I am not sure that wisdom and honour should have an inverse relationship. Perhaps Wisdom manifests in how honour is protected? There are ways to manoeuvre so as to keep one’s honour (maybe dignity is a better word); wisdom allows you to see the various pathways to achieve this?
Would be very interesting. And highly dependent on definitions (I suspect)
I mean it’s one thing to say “I’m not going to lie because it would ruin the honor of my family” (seems pretty wise)
Vs
“I’m not going to allow that drunk D1 wrestler to bump into me at the bar. He needs to respect me. Time to throw down!” (seems pretty unwise)
Thanks Scott! I’m embarrassed to say I never heard of Becks idea. Can you summarize it or send something?
To be clear ... I'm not an expert or even a novice for that matter. Just a fan of Beck. I hope this is a faithful interpretation.
With that proviso...
My understanding is that he found exaggerated beliefs and expectations = root cause of even the most significant psychological issues (e.g., schizophrania). At the core of his model is the insight that expectations about gain, loss, threat, or offense become exaggerated, leading to disproportionate emotional and behavioral responses.
Beck used phrases like "unrealistic beliefs" or "exaggerated beliefs" or "exaggerated expectations" or somesuch. I think they are basically synonymous in his work over theyears.
Anyway, you can sort of map this concept to all of the classic cognitive distortions:
All-or-Nothing Thinking: An exaggerated expectation that only total success or absolute virtue is acceptable. “If I’m not perfect, I’m a failure.”
Overgeneralization: The belief that one negative event signals an ongoing pattern—“I failed this test, so I’ll fail everything.” An exaggerated extrapolation of significance.
Catastrophizing: Perhaps the clearest fit—exaggerating the likelihood and/or severity of a negative outcome. “If I make a mistake, I’ll lose my job and never recover.”
Should Statements: Unrealistic standards for self or others—“I should always be productive,” or “They should always treat me fairly.” These reflect inflated moral or performance expectations.
Labeling: Global, exaggerated conclusions based on single events—“I’m a loser because I messed up.”
Mind Reading / Fortune Telling: Inflated certainty about others’ thoughts or future events—“They think I’m stupid,” or “This will definitely go badly.”
Bottom line = addressing the exaggerated expectations about gain, loss, threat, or offense = healthier.
Thanks that make you go hhhmmmm.
I once saw a full-blown fight break out at a party because a guy looked at someone else’s girlfriend the wrong way. Chaos. Punches. Shouting. I assume all in the name of someones “honour.”
In the middle of it, one of the boys shouted, “Take Shirley home.” I was driven straight to my door, and the guy didn’t leave until I was safely inside.
Same value – honour. Used for violence. Used for protection.
Maybe the challenge is to unhook honour from ego and dominance… and reattach it to integrity, courage ... ??
Door-walkers minus the broken noses.
A subset of men and just a freaking mess
*things